Episode 7
Finding a Piece of the South Up North w/ Dr. Rev Charlie Stallworth
Show notes to follow:
Transcript
Welcome to the Legacy of our African American Lives podcast, where our stories
Speaker:become oral histories created to uplift, empower, and embrace the next generation.
Speaker:Hi, my name is Tan Iby and I am a G'S bin Legacy author, educator, and I am your.
Speaker:I say this every week, but I am so excited about today's special guests.
Speaker:When you think about storytelling and you think about the African
Speaker:American experience, you cannot have those thoughts without thinking
Speaker:about going to church every Sunday.
Speaker:One of the highlights is the storytelling that you are bound
Speaker:to have coming from the pulpit.
Speaker:I think preachers are spectacular in their craft.
Speaker:Grabbing you and making you come along with them as they tell you
Speaker:the stories through the Bible, and then make connections to what we
Speaker:are living and going through today.
Speaker:And today's guest, Reverend Charlie Stallworth, is one of the best to do it.
Speaker:So welcome to the podcast.
Speaker:Thank you so much.
Speaker:You making such a generous introduction.
Speaker:I'm honored that you would have me on with you.
Speaker:I've had the privilege of sitting in the pews at East End.
Speaker:I enjoy the people, I enjoy the ministry
Speaker:It just takes you back to a certain place and time.
Speaker:And so again, I am so grateful to have you here and I know that your
Speaker:East End family is going to be listening when this episode airs.
Speaker:I want you to tell me a little bit about your story.
Speaker:If your grandkids were to turn on this podcast 10 years from now, 15
Speaker:years from now, what is it about your legacy that you want them to know?
Speaker:I think the ideal of legacy, if I can leave one, is that
Speaker:God's grace is sufficient and I have only arrived at whatever.
Speaker:That I've been able to enjoy in life by the grace of God.
Speaker:My gifts and talents are limited.
Speaker:But yet God has smiled on me in many ways beyond my expectation.
Speaker:This morning I was just, Thanking God.
Speaker:You know, Oprah says this thing about some of the things that we
Speaker:take for granted now, or some of the things we only dream for years ago.
Speaker:And so this morning I was just, thanking God for being able to wake
Speaker:up and look in the ceiling and not see the, and not see the sky . You know,
Speaker:growing up poor in Alabama, you could often wake up in the morning and look
Speaker:into the ceiling and see the skies.
Speaker:So I think just being what God can do with a.
Speaker:Even when we are not faithful but God is still faithful.
Speaker:So the faithfulness of God, the grace of God would be the themes of my life.
Speaker:I was born in Beatrice, Alabama 30, 40 minutes from G'S , but
Speaker:in Uro County, State of Alabama.
Speaker:Little small time maybe four or 500 people at that time.
Speaker:Cause at that time it was a Metron Polier.
Speaker:I, at least in my mind but went to elementary school.
Speaker:In high school there, there were probably.
Speaker:75 students in my high school class which was a very small class and I
Speaker:did not rank in the top 20, 40 or 50, yet I survived one of seven children.
Speaker:My parents, both mother and father quit school in the 10th grade.
Speaker:Because in that day and time my mother had to work to help her mother.
Speaker:My father quit school in the 10th grade and then some strange
Speaker:way went into the military.
Speaker:So how he did it, I probably should not share don't know exactly how
Speaker:the rules are, but he's in the land beyond now, so it doesn't make, I guess
Speaker:that much, too much of a difference.
Speaker:But once the little kid that probably no one thought would do much that would
Speaker:not succeed, would not go very far.
Speaker:I'm a mama's baby, I'd say I'm Gus's baby boy.
Speaker:And cried every day for probably the first.
Speaker:Four grades of elementary school because I didn't want to go to school.
Speaker:And I remember when I told my mother I was going to college, she was like, College,
Speaker:you were going to school, not used school.
Speaker:So somewhere after I entered the ministry, which I ended the
Speaker:ministry at age 16 but somewhere the desire for knowledge changed.
Speaker:, and I four degrees later, I just have a thirst for it.
Speaker:Now that I did not have.
Speaker:So just coming out of that small southern environment, my father was on the
Speaker:tail end of the civil rights movement.
Speaker:I never heard my father say, Yes, sir, to a white man his entire.
Speaker:Could have had something to do with, he had 22 pills in his back pocket.
Speaker:, I'm not sure.
Speaker:But he never said yes sir, to a white man.
Speaker:He was always clean every day after he retired from the military.
Speaker:So how did you end up from Alabama?
Speaker:To Connecticut.
Speaker:The long journey is, not a straight shot on interstate.
Speaker:But when I went to an undergrad school, a small baptist school in Alabama,
Speaker:in Selma, Selma University, across that at Miss Pettus Bridge every day.
Speaker:So I went to small Baptist school and sitting in class one
Speaker:day, I just looked on the wall.
Speaker:And there were those little TA forms that you could send in this back in the
Speaker:paper days Where you could just tear the form off and send it in and they
Speaker:would send you a catalog of the school.
Speaker:And so it was one on the wall from.
Speaker:Vanderbilt and I just tore it off and filled that I didn't send.
Speaker:Then ended up at Vanderbilt in seminary and went to Iowa.
Speaker:Out of seminary, I went to Iowa.
Speaker:Yeah, I know.
Speaker:Des Moines.
Speaker:Des Moines, Iowa.
Speaker:I must have, as I said, I was not in the top 10 in my high school class because
Speaker:I must have flunked geography because I didn't even know Desmoines Iowa existed.
Speaker:As a matter of fact, what I told my faculty advisor that I was going
Speaker:to apply for a church, I said, In Des Mos, he said, Wait a minute,
Speaker:First of all, get the name right.
Speaker:It is not Dess des, let's get right.
Speaker:So I was there, the church for 10 years, left there back to Alabama and spend on.
Speaker:Eight years, I believe.
Speaker:And a friend of mine called me one day.
Speaker:I remember I was in Selma, Alabama when he called.
Speaker:And he said, Stalworth, there's a church in Connecticut.
Speaker:Home folk problem from where you are from and they're looking for a pastor.
Speaker:And I came up a couple times and preached and was.
Speaker:Surprised, Pleasantly surprised to see people from Alabama.
Speaker:I think.
Speaker:Someone walked up to me and said, I'm from Camden.
Speaker:I went, You are from Camden to Camden.
Speaker:I know because in my hometown, Beatrice is in Maro County, which is dry county in
Speaker:Camden is in Wilcox, which is wet county.
Speaker:But those who listen, who may not know of, dry county, you can't sell alcohol.
Speaker:Wet county, you can.
Speaker:So people in our county always.
Speaker:Went to Wilcox County to buy that alcohol cause they could buy legally there.
Speaker:And so when I came here as a candidate, to preach and met people from Camden
Speaker:and GE Bins and all those places, I went wow, this is the south of north.
Speaker:A friend.
Speaker:Mass a pastor who was helping East End, and their search for pastor was
Speaker:the one who told me about East End.
Speaker:That's the way I arrived here 17 years ago.
Speaker:It does not feel like it has been that long, but 17 years ago.
Speaker:I think when you move up To this, to the northeast, that
Speaker:the New York vibe is in the air.
Speaker:So, you know, you come up with the southern hospitality, you go in
Speaker:the grocery store, you speak to everybody, you notice nobody's speaking
Speaker:back, and you pull back, right?
Speaker:But then you discover their pockets where people just as Southern and has just as
Speaker:much southern hospitality and in some place, I think you find your own balance.
Speaker:And I think I found my own balance in just being true to
Speaker:who I am and living out my life.
Speaker:When I walk around mean all day , . So I found myself in that southern flare.
Speaker:Cause I'm really an introvert, so I have to sometimes work hard.
Speaker:To get it out.
Speaker:And the impact I really sense is when I go back home to visit and you run in
Speaker:the store and you just wanna go in the store and get, I don't know, bottled
Speaker:water or whatever, and come back out and you walk in the store and you get your
Speaker:bottled water and you put on the counter and instead of the prison saying $2, $3,
Speaker:it's like, So how are you feeling today?
Speaker:You look, you got a great smile.
Speaker:So you go, Okay, I'm back in Alabama.
Speaker:You just can't walking the store and buy something to walk out . So
Speaker:that's like being energized again with that southern hospitality.
Speaker:. I've been in ministry, I've been preaching for 42 years.
Speaker:That is just that blows my mind.
Speaker:, maybe 30 years ago someone wrote a book, I don't even remember the name of the
Speaker:book, but the emphasis of the book, I do remember that suggested that we should
Speaker:start forming small groups and pockets because people would not be able to always
Speaker:come to church and everyone read that book and went Ah, doesn't make sense.
Speaker:We'll always be able to go to church.
Speaker:Why wouldn you go to church.
Speaker:Yeah.
Speaker:And Some churches adopted what they call a sale group, ideal to being
Speaker:connected with smaller groups , but it has been a shock to the church
Speaker:because part of us, we survive on the preaching, the singing, the teaching,
Speaker:but part of us is also the fellow.
Speaker:Mean, that's the reason we dress up and go to church.
Speaker:It's a, its, it's a style of freedom, you know?
Speaker:So we also missed that part of the fellowship.
Speaker:And so when Covid came about and really a shutdown and given the
Speaker:African American community where maybe technology is not as present.
Speaker:It has been kind of a shock.
Speaker:We were fortunate at East End Church because we had already
Speaker:decided to go online even before we heard the pandemic was coming.
Speaker:And so when the governor said, Hey, shut down, we were like, Okay, flip the switch.
Speaker:Let's go live.
Speaker:But it's been a slow.
Speaker:Coming back.
Speaker:I think if you would line up grocery stores, dry cleaners
Speaker:even movie theaters, people have gone back to those places first.
Speaker:More so than they have gone back to the church because how can
Speaker:you,, it's a hard challenge.
Speaker:I can listen to the sermon and eat my toast at the same time.
Speaker:You know, so I'm having my coffee and communion and I still have all my
Speaker:snips, so it's kinda hard to fight that.
Speaker:I think there will be a return that's going to be gradual.
Speaker:I remember growing up and hearing about the big revivals where the young people
Speaker:would have to seek God and I don't even know if I'm pronouncing it correctly,
Speaker:so I'm asking if you could help me.
Speaker:The morning bench.
Speaker:That's where you would go to weep into mourn, sorrowful for your sins.
Speaker:You know that you mentioned revival.
Speaker:The fourth Sunday of September every year was homecoming and revival at
Speaker:my home church and to your Baptist church these days were so important.
Speaker:That I still remember first Sunday in August was Morningstar.
Speaker:Second Sunday was shallow.
Speaker:I think third Sunday may have been s best of one other churches
Speaker:but that was their Sunday.
Speaker:Every year everybody opened their trunks and their doors and they put out tables.
Speaker:We serve food.
Speaker:And we came back every night for the week for church.
Speaker:And you are right, you went to the mornings bench.
Speaker:You sat there until you got religion?
Speaker:Yes, . Okay.
Speaker:And hopefully by Friday night you got some religion.
Speaker:So if you felt like you got some religion by Friday night.
Speaker:Then you joined the church, but that, that was the morning's bench,
Speaker:that very front bench and take.
Speaker:Now lot of churches, people are little in the south, they are not eager to sit
Speaker:on that morning's bench, although it's no longer called the mornings bench.
Speaker:That psych says If I sit here, everybody's gonna think I must have been in sea it.
Speaker:It's . So I'll take the second.
Speaker:Yeah.
Speaker:There are some stories I've heard of people saying, you had to sit there
Speaker:until they just gathered around you.
Speaker:Cause the preacher had preached that sermon about going across hell on
Speaker:the spider's web . They would come and lay hands on you, pray for you.
Speaker:They'd say, catch hold, Let it go.
Speaker:Hold on.
Speaker:Let it go.
Speaker:And at the end of the night, you didn't know whether you wanted to hold on,
Speaker:let go catch up, run to slow down.
Speaker:Cause you'd have heard so many phrases come in into your ear.
Speaker:But they would pray you through until you either got religion
Speaker:or maybe in a few cases you made up a moment of getting religion
Speaker:Two things church and politics.
Speaker:And so, , as I have a politician the idea of separation of church and,
Speaker:and state was really to protect the state against the Church of England.
Speaker:So that the church would not control the state.
Speaker:It is not that people won't keep state out the church, the church out the state.
Speaker:That was not the ideal.
Speaker:And it became kind of point of contention.
Speaker:But I say to people, when my ancestors were stolen from their land and put on
Speaker:slave ships, you involved me in politic.
Speaker:Because you brought me over to a place you had a constitution.
Speaker:you broke me over to a place that had this idea called voting.
Speaker:So you involved me in politics.
Speaker:I didn't have the option to opt out.
Speaker:That was not a block I could check.
Speaker:And so I come in, I fight for my rights.
Speaker:I have two options to fight for my rights.
Speaker:I can use violence.
Speaker:Or I can use the law, which means I need to use politics.
Speaker:And so for minorities and African Americans and others there's no
Speaker:separation of existence in this physical world in my spiritual identity.
Speaker:And so you cannot make me a slave, but tell me, but when you die, you
Speaker:are going to heaven and be free.
Speaker:But I'm a slave right now, so I have to do whatever is necessary to engage in the
Speaker:liberation and the freedom for my people.
Speaker:So I'm involved in politics because I don't see a divide in
Speaker:line between one and the other.
Speaker:And being a politician, often I hear people say I don't
Speaker:get involved in politics.
Speaker:Ah, yes, you do.
Speaker:If you live in a home, politics, determine the codes that will be used to build that
Speaker:home if you drink water that has been.
Speaker:Regulated by politics.
Speaker:If you've got a car, it has been regulated by politics.
Speaker:If you drive on a highway, it has been regulated by politics.
Speaker:If you have a job, it's been regulated by politics.
Speaker:Very few places and very few moments other than no, breathing's been
Speaker:regulated by politics too, because they control the environment.
Speaker:So there's not an area of.
Speaker:That does not involve politics.
Speaker:And so I don't see a difference between my faith and my politics.
Speaker:I don't see a divide in line.
Speaker:I tell people who say, they just wanna, let whatever happened today
Speaker:and then they want to die and go to the other side and drink milk and honey.
Speaker:I said, Well, I don't want the milk cause I'm black toast intolerant
Speaker:and I don't need the honey.
Speaker:Okay?
Speaker:I need a paycheck and some things while I'm here, and some freedom
Speaker:and some opportunity right here.
Speaker:Not when I die, but right here.
Speaker:I think God's gonna take care of us when we die.
Speaker:Right.
Speaker:We do the right thing while we're here.
Speaker:God's got it.
Speaker:You talked about your church being online, so where can they find.
Speaker:East, then Tabernacle Baptist Church, Bridgeport 5 48 Central Avenue.
Speaker:We on Facebook we're on YouTube.
Speaker:Our services each Sunday, nine 30 Eastern time.
Speaker:And my last question to you is, why is it important for us to continue
Speaker:to support the Black church?
Speaker:For a long time the black church has supported us
Speaker:when you look at the historical black colleges when you look at some of
Speaker:the feeding programs when you look at the place where we could go to
Speaker:protest, it was the black church.
Speaker:We own the church before.
Speaker:We own banks.
Speaker:We own the church before we own corporations.
Speaker:It has been the backbone of what has gotten us to the point
Speaker:Where we are now, and if you're a black person, chances are whether it's been a
Speaker:funeral or it's been a worship service, you've been through a black church.
Speaker:Well, Reverend Stalworth, I want to say thank you so much for giving your.
Speaker:To us on the podcast this afternoon.
Speaker:This was a tip of the iceberg in terms of the questions that I have
Speaker:for you . So I'm going to extend another opportunity to come back
Speaker:and to talk to us a little bit more.
Speaker:Awesome.
Speaker:I will look forward to it.
Speaker:On another note for my blue and white family that may be
Speaker:listening, I enjoy talking to my frat Again, thank you so much.
